Ep #16: 3 Important questions to ask about the next steward

Episode Transcript

Austin
Welcome back to the Second Half Stewardship podcast. We're glad that you're here with us yet again. Last episode, we talked about the idea that God owns our time, and that specifically within owning our time. He calls us to utilize time to care for the vulnerable, not just to avoid them, but really care about them and for them.
And we can use our money to alleviate some of that. But really we need to see with open hands, God, where are you moving and how can I serve those around me? And as we've done the last couple of weeks, we've looked at God owns it all specifically related to our time. We are going to shift to the next couple of episodes to God owning relationships.
So, Spencer, you get to take this away about what we're going to talk about today.

Spencer
God owning again our relationships and there's, there's always this overlap that's interesting and we think about time and money and how there's really an overlap there really time in relationships, we can say there's a significant overlap there because where we put our time in terms of what we have with people, that really defines in large part how rich those relationships are going to be or can even grow to be.
Today one of the things that we want to surface is, of course we are stewards of what God has given us all of the gifts, talents, money, time, relationships as we think about stewarding the relationships. One of the aspects is what do we do with the money, with the resources that God has given us? How do we pass that on to the next generation and do that well?
So we want to surface three main questions in here:
Who is the next steward?
Are they prepared?
How much is enough for the next steward?

Austin
Remember back to the last conversation that we had during we were thinking about the uses of money. We started asking, How much is enough for me?
And it's a hard question to wrestle with internally for myself, but we do have to think about it. How much is enough for the next generation? So this is kind of playing on some of those ideas that we've already discussed previously.

Spencer
And obviously this is a question that doesn't apply to everyone as intensely. But for folks who have saved and who are thinking, how do I live and give in this season and think about that for the future. There is a very real potential that we end up passing along significant resources to people, and so we need to ask these questions that oftentimes are really just not posed in our culture for one reason or another.
So who is the next steward? It could be any number of people, obviously, or causes. And so we do need to surface that. Are they prepared? This is one of those questions that I think sometimes we pay lip service to as Christians. But are we really engaging at the appropriate times to help raise up that next generation of stewards, particularly as we think about this whole idea that God owns it all?
So if we can help stewards grow in the capacity to use financial resources, but also their time and then relationships and gifts and experiences, that's significant as well. You know, we pose questions like will a windfall, you know, whether it's large or small, push someone towards Christ or pull them away from Christ. Are they mature enough to be able to handle those resources?
And then how much is enough? Like you talked about, we think about that as we plan for the future financially, for ourselves, but really have to do that as well for that next generation of stewards. So, we come back to how this fits into our cultural moment. And most folks that we sit down with, at least initially, even Christians who, you know, are really thoughtful about the way that they engage the Bible and so many will come and say, okay, my formula for estate planning is basically, how many kids do I have? Take my net worth and divide by that number and everybody gets the same.
Certainly in some circumstances that could be what God's calling you to. At the same time that really is driven more out of a sense of how do I not offend anyone. So often it's, it's driven out of this sense of I don't want to seem unfair and I want to seem generous.
And so I'm going to divide things, you know, in this particular way. And it's done by certainly the majority of people, probably by better than 80% of people, at least, who we initially sit down with. So and then for folks that don't have children, think about the closest family member or maybe some charitable institutions they'll give to there.
But there's not as much attention that's paid to it. How much is enough for that next generation and how can I really prepare that next generation to be an excellent steward to having each season of life? So, you know, we come back to mentor friend Ron Blue, who suggests that one of the principles that we need to think about is that we should never pass wealth without passing wisdom.
Wisdom may create wealth, but wealth does not guarantee wisdom. So, Austin, you want to launch us into the scriptural component?

Austin
Today we're going to look at Ecclesiastes 7:11-12. So just some broad context for the book of Ecclesiastes. The writer is keen on the pursuit of wisdom and the futility of other pursuits. It's both. He looks to wisdom. He says it is a good pursuit, but he looks to pursuing wealth or pursuing any other number of things, and he talks about the futility of it.
And we explore chapter two a little bit earlier. Yeah, we explore chapter two a little bit earlier, which points to the reality that a life lived and enjoyed with God rather than in the pursuit of earthly riches or pleasures or laughter or sex or any of those things that he lists off. That's what the true where true life comes.
It's the pursuit of enjoyment with God rather than an enjoyment for myself. And I think we can look across the world and see when people pursue pleasures for pleasure sake, it always leads to a desire for more pleasures. And the last one is never satisfied. So through the first several chapter of the book, the writer reminds us that riches, wealth, labor, the can't satisfy but frequently to sorrow.
Ecclesiastes 5:10 says “He who loves money will not be satisfied with money, nor he who loves wealth with his income; this also is vanity.” So if pursuing money is going to lead to vanity, then most likely pursuing money for my children sake is going to lead to vanity as well. So what we want to look at is Ecclesiastes 7:11-12.
“Wisdom is good with an inheritance, an advantage to those who see the sun. For the protection of wisdom is like the protection of money, and the advantage of knowledge is that wisdom preserves the life of him who has it.”
So we think about the transference of wisdom. It's far more valuable than the transfer of wealth, because with wisdom comes the ability to handle wealth.
That doesn't mean that we automatically say, oh, my kids deserve $1,000,000 each, so I'm going to give them $1,000,000. It means if I were to happen to transfer $1,000,000 to them with wealth or with wisdom, then they may be more likely able to handle it. But we shouldn't just pass the wealth without passing wisdom of how do I handle this money?
And I think there's an interesting contrast that we see the writer has here, because in Ecclesiastes 2:18-19 he says, “I hated all my toil in which I toil under the sun, seeing that I must leave it to the man who will come after me, and who knows whether he will be wise or a fool? Yet he will be master of all for which I toiled and used my wisdom under the sun. This also is vanity.” So the writer both simultaneously says wisdom with an inheritance is good, but I'm going to still pass everything on and who knows if they're wise or a fool. And so there's this internal tension that we always have to come to with how are we passing anything on to the next generation?
And especially with wealth, it needs to be coupled with wisdom. Wisdom is good with an inheritance advantage to those who see the sun. So, wisdom will always bless the next generation. Wealth won't always bless the next generation. And similarly, when I die, I can't control it anymore. But what I can do in this life is I can hand off wisdom.
Anything there, Spencer, from the passages or from Ecclesiastes that you want to touch on?

Spencer
I think you handled it really well. I think we come back to if we focus the most on that character development side of things, that can be the greatest gift. Again, moving our children, grandchildren, nieces, nephews, friends, moving them towards Jesus. If we can do that, then again, they have an opportunity.

Austin
And I think, you know, Ecclesiastes is often says things like vanity of vanity all is vanity. And I think we focus on the wealth. That the passing of wealth can lead to lamented folly. We focus on the passing of wisdom. Then the passing of wealth, I think, comes naturally.
We know when our kids have embraced something and have learned something, we can see it in them. We can see it in those around us. And I think what I'm trying to hold on with all my control then it's going to lead to folly. And it's going to lead to vanity and lament and torment. But if I keep open handed then maybe I'm not going to be as stressed about leaving my kids wealth.

Spencer
Well, and part of this is that if we focus on that character development, if we focus on teaching and emulating and modeling a life that is devoted to God, then we are making ourselves available to that next generation.
We really have to approach that with a posture of humility to be able to impart that wisdom. Because if we, like you said, if we come in and we've just got an agenda and it's, hey, you need to live by these 12 rules and then I'm going to give you this money. And we even write it up and codify it in a trust that's not going to work well.
Because there's either going to be resentment or there's not going to be an embrace of those principles or values, because I think what the greatest gift that we can actually give to the next generation is a life that is first refined, sanctified, devoted to the Lord, and then a conversation with that next generation that loves them and engages them in a particular way.
And when we stray from that, when we say, well, you know, internally I'm doing all these different things so I can make all this money, so I can pass it on to you, so you can have what I didn't.
What I think our conversations would suggest with clients would be that most of the next generation would far prefer a relationship with someone that is very mature, very engaged and invested in that and loving.
That that ear that you have kind of on that unconditional love and support is far more redemptive, powerful, effective than any amount of dollars, you know, with, you know, zeroes behind it or what have you.

Austin
And I love I love this quote by Ron Blue, He says, “Don't try to control wealth from beyond the grave, because you can't and you won't really care when you're in heaven.” It just is such a good reminder, like, I can't control anything when I am dead. And when I'm with the Father in eternity, I'm not going to care.
It's such a beautiful reminder. So, we think about our response. We look to Certified Kingdom Advisors, and they've imparted of a lot of wisdom on us. And one of the things they say is “Biblical stewardship is the accomplishment of God-given goals and objectives using God-given resources. And the last stewardship decision I get to make is, ‘Where does this wealth go?’”
So coming back to our three questions, we determine: Who's the next steward? Are they prepared? And How much is enough for them? So as you think about those questions in relation to this idea of wisdom being important to impart before wealth, what are some thoughts there, Spencer?

Spencer
Well, you know, I love also the thrust of realizing that this is relational. And so this is not to say that the next steward has to be, you know, a Christian. There are situations where we have heirs and we want to love them well, and so we're going to pass on some resources to them. We may not pass on, you know, an even split of resources, you know, going one third, one third, one third.
But perhaps there's, you know, a way that we can still honor the relationship and be able to love them through this, showing that our love really is unconditional. You know, in some ways. So that's one thing that really strikes me. I think another element here that I come back to is being very intentional in this and saying, how do I use the resources right now that I have to have an influence on these people so that when I'm gone, they're in the best spot possible.
It's kind of we've gone through the parable of the dishonest manager, you know, who uses his resources during the time that he has them and writes down the bills so that he can gain favor. You know, with those resources so that he's in a better spot in the next season.
And in in some ways, I think we get to use our wealth as in being able to do that with our loved ones, because, you know, whether it's taking me an extra trip, you know, with a friend or, you know, a family member and being able to really enjoy that with them and just have that one on one time or whether it's being able to set up an experience or do something that would be able to use those resources, oftentimes we can bring those forward and do living and giving now to help equip that person in a better way.
They may not receive nearly as much down the road, but hopefully they would have had the experience, the growing in that time and then whatever they would receive down the road would actually be a benefit to them.

Austin
Those relationships, that's so much more significant. I don't expect stuff from my parents. If it happens, it's going to be fantastic. But the relationship that's being gained and formed in us now is so valuable. And I would care. I don't care about any sort of financial resources that they'll ever pass.
What I want is that time with my parents while they're here. And if I think about that and that's what I long for from my parents and my kids, probably long for that relationship with me. And it just reframes it to, What is really valuable? People are valuable. Everything in this world is going to pass away. All the money that we have will pass away.
But those relationships that we have in this life, the wisdom we can pass along, that the time is not something that will have great. So, you know, as I think about passing on wealth as well. When I think about how much is enough and the implications how much is enough is a question that I think needs to get answered on multiple levels.
Because how much is enough? Like you were saying, for children might be different, but it might even be different for institutions. And I've heard people say that people who give million dollar gifts, have to be really aware of where that money goes, because not all organizations and institutions can handle a seven figure gift.
And that's kind of that's been challenging for me to give of as I think about where do we want to give resources? It's caused me to continue to think about what am I doing with those organizations? What kind of relationship do I have with them so that I am leveraging that trust that is built through relationship? Or am I just giving haphazardly?
Because I've been asked. And so I think that how much is enough question is something that we need to be asking now. Not just in our estate planning.

Spencer
Well, and as we are able to give more do more living and giving in this current season, then we can actually see how those resources are utilized.
So sometimes there's a reluctance among folks to be very, very generous during their lifetime because they think that maybe that will change the dynamic of a relationship. And it can.
It certainly can. But if it changes the dynamic of the relationship, then what that means to clue us in is that maybe that steward is not prepared in quite that same way. If there's a level of true maturity there. I think we see typically that it doesn't change the relationship because the relationship was never about money to begin with.
But if the institution, for instance, that's receiving extra funds, if that changes the dynamic in a substantial way and, you know, they may reach out more, you know, just by the nature of having, again, that relationship feeling more supported. But if it changes in a substantial way of pushing in different directions, then that clues us in that maybe this isn't where the institution that needs to be selected or one of them for the next generation.
So it gives us all this kind of real time feedback. There and I think too, you know, it's wonderful to be able to think how am I preparing the next generation of stewards all along the way. I love this resource that again, Ron Blue and his wife Judy and another author wrote, “Your Kids Can Master Their Money”, but basically it's the envelopes system for kids, you know, and giving them kind of graduated levels of experience.
So as they're very young, they may have some kind of an allowance that they receive a small amount of money so that they could would contribute to them being able to maybe purchase gifts at Christmas or other times of the year for family members, maybe be able to contribute a little bit to the offering or to those in need.
And as they get older, instead of, you know, having a mother or father be the principal buyer of clothing, gradually delegate that responsibility to the kids. And they may need to, you know, do a certain amount of work mowing lawns or babysitting or whatever they do to make some money to be able to contribute to that. But having a whole system where they're actually having to make some fairly significant decisions when they're 10, 11, 12, 13 years old about money.
Am I going to defer this for the future and be able to buy something that I enjoy? Then can you know, how much am I going to be giving? That's something that we've found has been really helpful in engaging our kids to give them the opportunity to make mistakes with money.
Because we all grow the most typically by having that real life experience and making some mistakes. You know, buying that set of sneakers that is, you know, far more expensive than maybe we needed. And not having the resources to buy maybe the sweatshirt or the coat or whatever it might be, that would have been, you know, a better investment of those resources down the road.
So setting up those small opportunities to grow and then allowing that maturity, you know, to happen over a period of time. But I think that book, and we'll have it in the show notes, is an excellent resource because it gives not just that envelope system, which is tremendously creative and thoughtful in the way that it's put together, but secondarily, other ideas of how to get the kids involved and in that stewardship process.
So, you know, one idea, for instance, is to provide a certain amount of money around Christmas time and have a family conversation about where those funds go to having the kids do a certain amount of research or make a presentation to the family of why they think, you know, funds should go in one direction or another. So really, I think we don't have to feel overwhelmed.
But we've got to come up with this kind of plan. All on our own. There are resources that are out there that are excellent. And then if we do this in community, we can learn from one another to say, okay, well, what worked well for you? Where did you know? Where did this exercise run off the rails?

Austin
Especially as you were talking about that, when we think about it in community as well, my children might in some ways act more like your children when it comes to money. Or you might have one acts more like one of mine and we can say, Hey, this blew up entirely for these two, but it worked for this one.
How did it go for you and be like, Oh yeah, that one, it blew up as well. And then it allows us to see, oh, there's a commonality between those two children. And maybe we need to reframe it and we work together to figure that out. I love that idea of doing that community.
So as we think about the last little bit, I we're going to leave with this quote from John Chrysostom. “If you wish to leave wealth to your children, leave them in God's care. Don't leave them riches, but virtue and skill for if they have the confidence of riches, they will not mind anything else besides, for they shall have the means of screening the wickedness of their ways in their abundant riches.” So again, it comes back to this.
If you wish to leave wealth to your children, don't just leave them with money. You need to leave them with virtue and skill and when you were talking as well, I was like, this is a lifelong process.
We can't just give money to our kids when we feel like they're ready for it. We need to let them fail. We need to let them come to us and be like, I need a sweatshirt. And I spent all my money three months ago and two months ago. And last month.
And we can talk with them through that. But that's part of the lifelong journey. If I look at my life of faith, there have been so many times where the Lord has come in and stepped in and reminded me. Yeah, you tripped this time, but I'm still here to catch you. And I think that's the type of virtue that we want to pass on to our children is that, we are passing along wisdom. And with wealth comes, you have the wisdom to be able to take it.

Spencer
Well, and still so many different small learning points along the way so that we don't have to play catch up down the road.
There's a self-awareness that is developed incrementally there over time, because if we get to 16, 18, you know, maybe even 22 and haven't had that much experience with money, haven't had that much meaningful experience with money, it can feel overwhelming, you know, for kids in those circumstances. So being able to do our part to equip the next steward is critical.

Austin
Well, if you found this valuable and helpful or you didn't find it valuable, you've got a challenging and you don't want to talk about it anymore, it's okay, too. We would encourage you to share it with a friend now either way, because when we find topics that are challenging, it's always better to talk about it with somebody else. So share with a friend and we will see you again next time.