Ep. 033 - Embracing Simplicity: Stewardship in a Material World. Feat. Michael Blue

Episode Transcript

Austin
So, Michael, thank you so much for sharing in that last episode about working diligently. If you didn't hear it, we really hope that you go back and listen to it. But one of the things that you mentioned was this the story of this family that received help from your church and was really diligent to cut spending, to start living simply, but continue to work really diligently.

So this week we're going to talk about that idea of living simply. And you finish the section on working diligently with this idea that if you do that, there is a likelihood that your lifestyle or that not necessarily your lifestyle, but your income can grow. And when it grows, oftentimes there's this expectation internally that your lifestyle grows to match the income change.

But this idea of living simply kind of runs counterintuitive to that. So when you think about that idea of living simply, what are some key characteristics that you think of?


Michael
Yeah, I mean, it is it is true, Austin. I think it was John Wesley who kind of bemoaned the fact that as revival comes to a place, you know, people begin to work diligently, they begin to be, you know, more just they begin to live more thoughtfully. And that produces some sort of prosperity. And then that makes it difficult to be following after Jesus.

So some of these things, it's like, look, we it's easy to creep into what the result of working diligence is because we haven't thought much about it. And so I think that what's important is and living simply Richard Foster shaped my my thinking a lot on this. Richard Foster wrote the book Celebration of Discipline. He also wrote a book on simplicity.

And so he has a chapter in the Celebration of Discipline on simplicity. But he wrote a whole book on it. And the thing in the chapter and in the book he focuses on is it's not so much about how little can I have, how little can I spend, how you know, how small of a house can I live in, You know, how old do my shoes get?

It's the first place we get to and we think about a principle of living simply as am I seeking. First, the Kingdom of God is when Jesus tells us to seek first the Kingdom of God. He does it in a following of Do not be anxious about, you know, what you eat and what you're aware and what you, you know these things.

Because God cares for the lilies of the field. He cared for the birds of the air is the message instances instead of seeking after those things first the Kingdom of God and those other things, the simple things really will be added unto you. And so I think any when we begin a conversation of what does it mean to live simply, if I do it from a perspective of frugality, if I do it from a perspective of, you know, I want to was the fire, you know, the retire early thing, you know, if I'm from that perspective, I may accomplish something.

But it I certainly will not be going towards Christ's likeness. I will be really prone to the dangers of consumerism and consumption and all that that attend to having more. And so living simply, I say, really is much more of an attitude of contentment and seeking first the Kingdom of God than it would be. I can necessarily just look at what kind of car you drive or what kind of shoes you wear and tell you if you're living simply or living simply enough would be maybe that the other way to say that.


Austin
Yeah. So when we think about simplicity, it's not about consumption per se. It's about what is my attitude towards the heart of the Lord and his generosity towards me. How am I responding to a God that has been incredibly generous to me and am I thankful and responding in joy or am I saying, Yeah, you're right, I did do all this.

God, now I can take more on and do more and have more and have more toys and those types of things?


Michael
Yeah, No, I think I think that's exactly right. It's that it really begins in the engine and I and I probably will desire less as I grow in this. I mean that's kind of a part of it because I'm not as consumed with thinking that if only I could have this or this much more of this, that would bring me satisfaction.

Now, it doesn't preclude me from enjoying things that that I might have at all. And I think that's unfortunately a side effect, is if I become this really dull person who's like, well, I can't take joy in, you know, eating that food because that would not be me living or finding contentment outside of God. It's, you know, it's actually as I think C.S. Lewis even points out, as I become more heavenly minded, as they become more attuned to that, I actually become way more effective and enjoy the things of what God has created here more and can savor and satisfy them even more because I haven't put them in a place that they

can't hold to. They can't attain ultimately.


Austin
Well, then I think like what you're you're leading towards is this this idea that you really shouldn't live in asceticism where it's what can I do to have the littlest amount of stuff, Nor should it be this desire for I want all the stuff I want all the good life all the time. It should neither view a life of constant celebration and party and lavishness, nor should it be just.

I want to be as miserly as possible.


Michael
Yeah, I think. I think just, you know, tie that up. I think that I mentioned a little earlier. I think people tie simplicity to frugality or asceticism, and they're not synonyms at least that we're using and they're not.


Austin
Right. Right. Yeah. So one of the things one of the key questions that you surface in trying to discern how to move forward and we as we think about spending decisions is this question of how does this help me to know God more or join with him in his work? And in the book, you talk about the story where you've got oak trees on your property and they get this disease and I just think it's it's such a helpful vignette into your process, at least that one circumstance as I read it, I was like, this is really helpful to think about.

So can you share a little bit more about that story and what was happening at y’all’s place?


Michael
Yeah, So we we live in Austin, Texas, and you know, our house was built probably in the seventies, late seventies. And so, you know, there's these beautiful oak trees in our neighborhood that are big and kind of frame old houses and make them look beautiful or look better than a 1970s house, can look beautiful. It was a bit of a stretch, but we found out there are two started to kind of die and there's a disease called oak wilt.

So we found out our trees had oak wilt and began to kind of look at what we were going to do with them. And one of the one of the decisions is do you cut them down or do you treat them? And they're both pretty expensive propositions. But, you know, and so I began to wrestle with this. Fact is this is just indulgence of me liking the esthetic look of my house and not wanting my big, beautiful trees to die.

So I'm willing to spend thousands of dollars to give them medicine, to hope that they live right. It's like, okay, my treating a tree like a like an animal or even a child. And so, you know, I was wrestling with this. And as I was wrestling with this, I was actually teaching this content and seminary for the very first time.

And so I'm by myself and my wife and she's getting the quotes. And so we're starting to wrestle with what do we do? Like what's the what's the right thing to do with our money? Because it, you know, the damage our properties value if we don't treat these trees because now we don't have these beautiful trees on our property and, you know, all these justifications that we try to go through and then, you know, as we are going through it, my wife and out her grandmother who had died, left each of the grandkids $10,000.

And it was, you know, this surprising gift. And so now you think, okay, now we have this money that we could put straight towards those trees or we could give it away or we could save towards. So we began to just kind of pray through and wrestle with this God, what's the what's the right thing to do in this situation if we're trying to honor you with our money and, you know, we don't want to waste our home, but we also don't want to do these other things and oak wilt is contagious.

So if I let it spread, it damages my neighbors. And all of these considerations kind of were swirling around as we thought of, you know, what what's the what's the right thing to do? And I think I encouraged us in the story of just, you know, ultimately we treated the trees. That was was the end of it.

But, you know, as literally today, we planted new trees in our yard because those trees had to be cut down ultimately because they died, We treated them and they didn't survive. So, you know, it's like, okay, well, was that wasted money? And now I think, well, maybe I should have done something differently. But gratefully, I think I have I don't get too caught up in past decisions like that, you know, unless I truly feel the conviction of God saying that was wasteful or that was not what I wanted you to do.

But in this situation, we were really, truly wrestling God, what honors you? What's the right thing to do? And so we kind of made a decision on it and move forward and what we thought was best for our neighbors and, you know, would maybe save the trees and all that and then do our best not to just look back and always second guess those things.

Because I do think God is gracious even when the trees ultimately die. And you have to take them out.


Austin
When I love what you said in the book, he said, I'm not sure if we made the right decision, but I'm grateful we asked the questions, you know, And I think that's what's often contrary. You know, Spencer and I joke about, are we going to ever make a little wallet card that has my face on it that just says, stop it.

I put it in my wallet. It just reminds me when I open it and it's my face saying, stop it to remind me to stop spending. But that isn't really helpful either, because it's not asking the question. It's me trying to force on myself this idea of if I just say stop it, it's not causing me to really trust the Lord.

I have a proclivity away from asking God the question, but rather the transformation. It happens by coming before the Lord and saying what would you have in this spending decision? Is it honoring to you? Does it show me more of yourself, or am I just doing it to satisfy myself, my wants and my rights?


Michael
Yeah, and it teaches us to, I think, to listen to God because we do make mistakes. I mean, I you know, and I try to listen and I try to obey. There's times when I'm not sure maybe that's a lack in myself, but just in all honesty, there are times when I, I have great comfort in the decision and other times I'm just not there.

And so, you know, it's like, do I make a decision or do I just hold forever? And I found that God is a gentle God and disciplining even and my mistakes and I learn a lot from those mistakes as well. And so it's not I don't I try not to get caught up in, you know, this is the last chance I'm going to get if I don't get this right.

And so, you know, we've we've done some good things in our lifestyle and we've probably and we've done some not good things in our lifestyle. And, you know, I think then we look at it again and we get back up and we say, okay, God's still loves me as much as he did before I talk about I think about or try to try to think about the immutability of God, the unchangeableness of God.

That means, you know, God cannot be more loving than He already is. He cannot be less loving than he already is. He's perfectly loving. And so his love that's extended towards me isn't on this modular scale based on how I do and listening and responding. And that's an actually not just say, well, it doesn't matter and actually just bring me closer to him and say, Man, I want to please God.

He loves me like that unconditional he in that way. And so, man, I want to make him glad in my decisions. I want to make him happy, if you will, and how I'm living and so that's kind of what I try to come back to as I as I make mistakes and try to make better decisions the next time.


Spencer
Well, and I think that's one of the things we pride so much our choice, you know, in America, in our control. And so, you know, whether we're controlling and that we get to make decisions to be able to take, you know, this luxury or that luxury or even the other side of, no, we're just going to make the choice that we're not doing that.

It's still almost comes back to us where we don't have a posture of listening like you were talking about. And I think either one of those is actually far easier for me than sitting in a posture of listening oftentimes because, you know, just responding and listening and being okay with, you know, whatever the Lord may lead and not being in control, that that can feel unnerving, you know, in some ways.

And I know that's the case in some ways for our culture.


Michael
Yeah. No, I think you're spot on, Spencer It's it's hard to submit, hard to listen and hard to wait. I think that's the other thing that we get in our culture where there's so much instant, instant satisfaction gratification that the waiting can be the hard part for us. It's like I'm fine either way. Just tell me like, Well, waiting is your answer right now.