Ep. 041 - Nurturing Relationships: Insights from Psychologist Dr. Brian Humphreys - Part 2

Episode Transcript

Spencer
Welcome to the second half Stewardship Podcast. We believe that God owns it all and our response as Christians is to live generous lives. I'm Spencer Hall, a certified financial planner.


Austin
And I am Austin McLaughlin. As former full time missionaries in the United States and oversees Spencer and I approach managing our personal finances through the lens of biblical stewardship.


Spencer
Journey with us as we explore how to be generous stewards of our money, time, relationships, gifts and experiences.


Austin
So, Brian, we've been talking a lot about utilizing gifts and talents, allowing God to really surface what someone is gifted at, but also nurturing those gifts and talents and being present with with the Lord, with who you are. And I think in a modern cultural setting, we often hear these phrases of you need to be the best self, or you do you or this like and it's all about your own personal happiness.


Austin
But even with what you were touching on earlier, I think you mentioned people go through hard times and sometimes God calls us into hard places.


Brian
Yeah.


Austin
So as a Christian counselor, like, how do you walk with people through both dark times and hard times, but also working against this meta narrative that the culture is saying, like, you get to do whatever you want to do to make you happy?


Brian
Yes, it's a great question. One thing that I'm aware of is both secular and Christian writers, especially like sociologists and social commentators, agree our culture has become over the last 20, 30 years, whatever increasingly narcissistic. Increasingly, it's all about me. I mean, I read, you know, liberal, irreligious people saying that, conservative Christian people saying that, and there's no getting around it.


Brian
And it's and yet research is showing, especially since roughly 2000, 16 people are more depressed than ever. The suicide rate, I mean, people aren't getting happier being focused on being happy. And yet it saddens me if a Christian, if their number one goal in life is to be happy, or that your kids be happy and grandkids be happy, I like happy and pro happy and I don’t think God's anti-happy?


Brian
But my my reading, the scripture was taught and model to the great Christians in the past 2000 years. Is that Christian thinkers will say this next sentence differently. Some will say we're called to be holy mainly. Some will say that I say we called to live a life of agape love with God in others, which oftentimes results in times of happiness, but sometimes in times of great sadness.


Brian
So the goal isn't so much to be happy, but to be loving, to receive God's love just like a child does, and love him in response, and then to love others and give and receive love with them. Now, quite often that produces happiness or excuse me, a God knows a cheer or the deeper term. You talk about joy, and it seems to me joy is a result of relationships and beauty.


Brian
We use the word joy so easily. I don't think it's joyful. If you tune with the football game, you're rooting for them, you're happy about it. But I call it Joy, I think is like. And so I think joy is really God's heart is about loving, connection, loving presence of engagement, and also about beauty. So I think in working with people, I encourage them to live for something bigger than happiness and to live for closest to God.


Brian
You can say holiness becoming more loving. In one of my favorite authors of the Christian philosopher Douglas Willard talked about The goal of the Christian life is to become increasingly characterized by agape love, and the other fruit of the spirit and happiness will oftentimes be a part of it, but sometimes it isn't. And sometimes we need to be sad.


Brian
One of my favorite versus the Bible. You know, people talk about the love chapter in 1 Corinthians 13 but Paul writes even more about love and Romans 12 versus nine to the end. It's about love and the community to believers and the radiates out. One of my favorite verses is Romans 12:15. Rejoice with those. Rejoice and in week with those who weep.

Brian
Let's get some really fun, happy stuff going on in the first part of that verse. But you also need to be sad and you need to go to weddings and dance and have fun. You need to go to funerals and cry. You need to rejoice with someone because you're pregnant. Yay! And they need you to cry with them and for them when they miscarry if that happens.


Brian
And and so I think here's a key thing You can experience what I would call joy while you're crying sad tears while you're holding a friend who's just lost a loved one, you can feel joy that you're being lovingly president, engaged even though you're sad. Or that friend might say, I'm so sad right now. But there's an element of joy in me because I'm feeling loved by God and others.


Brian
And so, yeah, I would I would say it's not all about me. The verse that comes to mind for me was this John 3:30. You know, Jesus must increase. John the Baptist, says I must decrease or some translations, he has come greater and it's become less. I think it's kind of a paradigm, you know, that that becoming less is that self-hatred or I don't matter or may well be doesn't count.


Brian
It's just seeing it really is first and foremost about him in his will. And so I'd like happiness when it comes to that needs to be a secondary concern. So that’s my thoughts on that.


Spencer
It seems like to as we think about stewarding relationships, going to have space such that when some of those more difficult times come in the lives of our friends community, such that we're really able to engage emotionally there as I'm picking up that well, yeah, you know, from a stewardship perspective, yeah, I think so often we will naturally move away from that or we will gloss over it.


Spencer
Yeah, I'll be praying for you that or you know, but we're not really present maybe to people in ways that will help to, to create that safety that soothing that security. You know, some of those S’s that you talked about earlier as we think about not just with our kids, but we really want to create that environment on some level, maybe not as deep level, but on some level with our friends and such, where we're not going to naturally probably have as much time to invest in relationships that are outside of our household.


Spencer
Right. But, you know, if we run from, you know, death and disease and, you know, difficulties there, we're really not engaging in that level in we're kind of scared of it. You know, our culture says, hey, that's not happy, that's not right. Run from it. Right? Whereas, you know, the things that you're talking about there, it seems like that level of intimacy, oftentimes it can be created, whether it's with our family or whether it's with people in our community or church or, you know, loved ones that can be as rich as anything.


Brian
somebody absolutely can’t agree with you more. Something to think about I find really helpful with my clients is a think of a typical bull's eye, a target with a bull's eye in the bull's eye would be you. If you're a Christian, you and the father and the son, you're in the spirit. You might think of the edge of the red circle your body.


Brian
But and then the first ring would be the people closest and most important to use, in your case, your wife and kids. Your wife and kids in the next room would probably be parents, siblings, whatever. And then you've got maybe you're you you people do differently. Your best friends, good friends, casual friends, acquaintances. And I mean the rings are in you plot it.


Brian
We have many more acquaintances and many more casual friends, and we have friends and close friends. And so it's important to realize that we can we can only give so much and we can give more to the closer rings. And also to realize that as much as I love Vicki and the kids, the people on my first ring and my granddaughter Rosemary, they don't define me.


Brian
The core of who I am as Jesus’s friend, his philos, as he says in John 15, you know, or God's spiritual son, Jesus disciple, who's padawan, if you will. And so I am a father, I am a husband, I am a grandfather, I'm a therapist. But that's not core to who I am. And I think realizing that frees me up to sort of let people who they are be who they are and love them.


Brian
Well, and something I really want emphasize to the if I can, is I think the hardest thing about up against in terms of people relating with other people, whoever they are, is a term I love that's kind of clunky, but I love it is the term otherness. We all of us have a hard time, 100% of us have a hard time with people being other than we are.


Brian
Curt Thompson is probably the most popular Christian psychiatrist. Writing out there is super popular is podcasts. His books are seminars. And he said, When I married my wife, he said, I didn't want to marry her. I want to marry a more attractive version of me. So you're a much more good looking version. Me with my thoughts, my world, my feelings, my desires, my priorities.


Brian
An incident happened, you know. Yeah. Hey, that's a good one. We get the humor of it. It's like, Yes. And it's really hard when we bump up against people. What, You don't think the way you did? You don't know it that way. You don't cook your turkey that way. You don't. You don't watch football. You don't you don't like romantic comedies.


Brian
You know, whatever. You know, you're not a Calvinist. Yeah, whatever. It's so it's in. What happens Next inside is something that's sometimes very uncomfortable, sometimes very sinful. I'm going to make you more like me. And so I think that the more we can say I love the way dialog has been defined by certain people as dialog is you share with me how you how you think and feel about life and the world and God, whatever.


Brian
And I share with you what I, I experience life in the world, my thoughts and feelings and see what comes out of that. I'd be open to being changed and being changed in any way that God would have to be changed in, you know, my opinion and many therapists said this and this is definitely my experience. Good therapists, good enough therapists allow other clients to change them.


Brian
And I've been changed so much for my clients, especially those who suffer the most. They've really helped me in so many ways as well, being who they are and let me journey with them and so they chose me very directly with things I say or don't say, do or don't do. And I and the Lord uses them and interpreting nine.


Brian



Spencer
Well, and even thought that parallels with what the management thinker Stephen Covey often used to say was, you know, one of his principles was listen first to understand and then to be understood. And, you know, he would keep coming back to you've got to be willing to be influenced by the words engaging with the.


Brian
Content.


Spencer
Regardless of where you're coming from, can not agree, because that actually is the only thing that will lead to or the primary thing that will lead to a level of influence for yourself. But being able to influence someone if you wanted to go that direction, but just being present, you know, as a human being. Yes. And being open to that level of intimacy.


Spencer
The other thing that struck me as you're talking about, you know, the psychologist, you know, who's well known, Curt Thompson.


Brian
Thomas, he's a.


Spencer
Psychiatrist in Virginia. Okay. Well, you know, Seinfeld, you had a whole episode where Jerry found a woman that was just like him. And, you know, they sent her. And then yeah, it was funny, though, because by the time he got to the end, he realized, that's not what I want. You know, it's and so even when we even if we could chase that ideal, I think even the popular culture recognizes, hey, that's not actually what I want.


Spencer
And we certainly see that biblically. And that's never been the Lord's plan, you know, for us, you know, whether it be in marriage or in other relationships, there's always that sense of each person being formed in God's image, being able to bring things to a particular relationship. But, you know, there are kind of humorous cultural references to this idea that even though that's kind of where we're drawn in some ways, it's not the that's not the end game.


Spencer
Yes. Yes. Yeah.


Brian
Okay. Sure. I thought about relationships that it's a meta thought. Sure. And it really, really buttresses what you guys are about. Yeah. So I don't mean to hijack the conversation. Yeah. You guys have on your site. Biblical stewardship is how we intentionally use the resources God has given us to participate in His kingdom work. I love that I mentioned Dallas Willard the Christian philosopher and something he taught that has greatly influenced my thinking and I regularly share with my Christian clients is, he says, when you're in the Kingdom of God, you're a Christian in the kingdom of God.


Brian
You are given a sub, a kingdom or a sub queendom. I love that so much, which is a domain of influence on behalf of God. I think if Kevin Costner Dances with Wolves, he's he was given an outpost for the US Army. If they give you a beachhead, do you think the ambassadors, the ambassador to China, doesn't influence what's going on in Ecuador?


Brian
That's the ambassador to Ecuador. And and so I've been given a sub kingdom of areas of influence. I would say direct influence. It's kind of like if I tell you a joke, you are supposed to joke and you get an airplane flight. O'Hare Airport, they tell a joke and they fly to L.A., they they fly to Singapore. Next thing there are some in Singapore hearing a joke I told you, badly, directly influenced, directly influenced you.


Brian
But you see the ripple effect in that. So my area of domain is mainly my wife and children, my friends, my people, my family. Christ Chapel, my my biological family. My clients are the ones that most of the of the time I’m directly influencing. But this is where you get into parenting and grandparenting. As you parent your children, you are directly influenced seeing how they're going to parent their your grandchildren and great grandchildren.


Brian
You've known that this is commonsensical, for better and for worse. We carry on family dynamics. Yeah, in less or less we intentionally look at them, but just to take very seriously a good way to think about it is Dallas used to say much of peer needs to be simply God, what are we doing today in your kingdom? we're going to talk with Bryan this morning.


Brian
We're going to meet with so-and-so. And then we told Vicki how wonderful she is and plant the seed there. And and, you know, tonight I'm going to do this with my son or daughter. And then in it's how what are we doing? And I'm a big fan of like if I went to the hospital to visit someone and they said, thank you for coming.


Brian
And, you know, some people might say, no, it's not me, it's just Jesus. I think Jesus would say, Why are you lying? You know, you're my hands and my feet. Yeah, I would just say, I'm so glad that God and I can be a blessing to you. I'm glad to be here. It's that we were we think, What are we doing?


Brian
You know, how do we love this person? And I think it just that talk about purpose talk about it I think were the saddest things that confront and therapy is people who sincerely and genuinely will say as Christians I don't know. My purpose in life is not that people help them form that figured it out both at the thought level and then very individualized level.


Brian
And for all of us, it's our sole kingdom. Sole queendom it has to be teased out. But I think about that so much. I share that a lot. In therapy. People never heard that. They go, my gosh, yeah, talk about a way life. And so, yeah, I want to get that in there because it really supports what you guys are about.


Brian
I loved reading your statement. Yeah, participate I think as we're joined now, you use the word join. How can I join with God? With Jesus, with the Spirit. And further in his kingdom today, through loving presence, through listening, through dialog, through seeing soothing as a spirit directs. Yeah, yeah, yeah.


Spencer
Well, and that's even we've been influenced by, you know, our church family. So at Old North Abbey, we say that we're participating with God for the life of the world love. And we have those spheres of influence you're talking about there. And a lot of those overlap, of course, within a parish. But that is I think that's such a helpful way to think about it, because we have a real role.


Spencer
You know, it's kind of, you know, you think about the Lord of the Rings films. We each been given a task. Yes. You know, the only we can accomplish now in some mystical way, the Lord is going to affect his own purposes and his ends. He is coming back at some point. Yeah, we know that. End of the story.


Spencer
And yet we have a very real responsibility to act. And if we fail in our task, there is loss. Yes. You know, And so, yes, you know, how you put all of that together is. Yes. Beyond, you know, I think human capacity. And yet there is a weight there that is so important to recognize and to kind of grapple with of know that there is a role that I've been given.


Spencer
There are tasks that I've been given. If I don't find a way, you know, as they say in the film, no one will. Yeah. No, no. Again, that doesn't take away God's sovereignty or his capacity to act and bring the story together. But it's it's something that I think is so helpful.


Brian
Yes.


Spencer
To to give people that sense of their they're participating. They have a critical.


Brian
Role to.


Spencer
Play even in each interaction.


Brian
And to go with that to tie in earlier. Grandparents can be very much like Gandalf. Yeah.

Spencer
Yeah.


Brian
Older, wiser one that's a they have a Gandalf in role in many ways. Sure. I think a John Elder just story about talking with someone who's set the scene in Braveheart where they're all lined up for battle. And in Mel Gibson's character, William Wallace is going back and forth, the green face or whatever color was blue. And he's getting ready for war to get or battle they get some of them, like farmer farming implements in their hands, right in.


Brian
The guy told John Eldredge, I feel like the guy in the third row with the farmer and put my hand and what do I do? And I loved elders told me, said, you know, that's your place. If you leave your place, no one else is there to fill it. You think they need the men in the third row with the shovel or whatever he had and everyone's important.


Brian
And you know, we know that. And you got God instead of bumper stickers. Sentimental, you know, cutesy thing. But everyone is important in God's kingdom and has a part to play a role, a task. And, you know, I don't influence your children. You do.


Austin
And so, yeah, yeah. Well, as I think about it, too, we think about participating with God in the Great Commission and baptizing in disciples and all these things that God calls the family of believers to do. It's never meant to be just Brian or just.


Brian
Absolutely.


Austin
But also he's like, you're saying he's given us each these little subdomains of kingdoms. And I just remember so often in my last missions organization, they would talk about it's not the Billy Graham's that are going to reach the world, it's not the Bill Bright’s or these big figureheads. They could fill a stadium every day and never reach the world.


Austin
It's right. It's through individuals working through their communities and being fully present to the Lord and living out the great Commission in each one of our spheres. Because, like you're saying, it's a rippling effect. Yeah. What happens in the church in Iran? Like, as I hear those stories, I am empowered and emboldened to love my kids in a more deep way and share the gospel more boldly.


Austin
Or, you know, any of these little things where it's like what they do there actually has an influence on me. Yes. And I may never talk to that person until I reach my my resting state with the Lord and have an and and get to to rub shoulders with Muhammad and and Farsi that I've heard so much about.


Austin
Yeah. It's how do I be fully present in that subject. Yeah I yes he is such a beautiful vision for how do we participate with him and his mission. So thanks for sharing that.


Brian
You're welcome. Yes, I think it's very important. Absolutely.


Austin
All right. So, Brian, as we think about, you know, especially grandparents developing this subject, I mean, the family that they've been given, they've entered their wisdom years. They can pass on wealth, they can pass on resources, they can pass on wisdom to the next generation. Yeah. What are ways that they can develop that subdomain and really foster and that kingdom of God in their family?


Brian
That's a great question. I think a lot of it depends on geography because we have a grandchild, Rosemary, and she lives and she lives in Spokane, Washington, and her other two children don't live in Knoxville. So if they were to have children and stay where they are, they're not here. Whereas I know people I have a friend who all three of their children live here and and two of them have children.


Brian
And every Sunday night again, there's a family and I guess beautiful. It's wonderful. And that it's a commitment they make to have a meal. And I know another family in my church who I don't you know, their kids live here and they have grandchildren through two of their kids. They have four children. But I believe every Sunday they do like they'll have Android.


Brian
So we have our Android to do group meetings, to have an iPhone. You know, they do their version of iPhone, but I've actually heard them at their church sometimes back. They're laughing and see they're on the phone, they're doing their meeting. And so I think to do things like that is important. But to talk more in terms of people whose kids like your parents are here, I think getting together regular like that, I think telling stories, I think encouraging the grandparents to tell the story of their life and to be open as appropriate to the age and not to sugarcoat things.


Brian
But if you've had a hard life, you know, modulate how you do it, how you share it. But it's important the kids hear the stories and see how grandparents came through it and had mom and dad. And here are here with me now, loving me. And and this they're modeling resilience and perseverance and and certainly sharing their testimony how they came to the Lord.


Brian
And and and I think from there it's the grandparents telling the kids, the grandchildren, I'm always here for you if you want to talk, if you want some special one on one time, you want to process some things that I'm available or your grandmother and I are available to to spend time with you. And a lot of people I talk to therapy have felt safer in some ways with their grandparents than their parents, because of greatness, often are more chill.


Brian
You. When I was your age, I was always going to get it right, and now I'm just more like, Gosh, I get it wrong lots of times. And we have a term that's wonderful that comes out of, well, attachment theory, which I mentioned earlier. I love this term so much and used a lot in therapy is rupture and repair.


Brian
There are always ruptures in relationships, big or small, and then the key thing is do you seek repair in research even shows that that strengthens relationships if you repair well, strength of your brain, the neural neuronal connections there that I think that the more grandparents can come alongside their grandchildren in ways that maybe their parents are too busy or again, maybe your mom and dad doesn't have much time for me and in the process with them and talk about maybe you can talk to your mom or dad this way.


Brian
Like I was saying earlier and I think reading books with them is big in a way. We do go to The Lord of the Rings with your ten year old grandchild, and mom did a very busy bit. You know, I've got time and, you know, do that or, you know, special dates or taking in movies or, you know, like, you know, you have grandchildren you can be one to help them with baseball and basketball skills that they're interested.

Brian
And in youth CrossFit, you know, and so I think it's offering those talents and skills. I know for me personally, one thing I love to do is I love to read children's books and do the voices. It's one of the few gifts I have is I do voices pretty well. I can do all the Winnie the Pooh characters really well.


Brian
And so I hope one day with my grandchildren to read all the stories and do all the voices and maybe the way that their parents would be as good, I don't know. Time will tell, but you know, things like that. And you know, I'll go by Poppy. Poppy, why? And you know, Poppy, what? I want him to read this to me and and so things like that.


Brian
So, yeah, a final thought about grandparenting is Legacy Jim now familiar with. And I encourage grandparents to think about or just anyone older and think about the legacy. What do you want people to say at your funeral? You know, what do you want to be remembered for? Especially if you have children and grandchildren by them? When they think of grandpa, Grandma, what comes to mind?


Brian
And I do like the Maya Angelou quote is that I will forget what people said. I will forget what people did, but I'll never forget how people made me feel. And I don't think it's about being happy. I think feeling seen is what she was getting. That feeling heard and received. I think my my desire for my grandchildren speak, my grandchildren and grandparents is that when they think about me, they'll say, Poppy really knew how to be with me in a way that was safe and loving.


Brian
They may not use those words, but something that would reflect that going back to the for us is there means more to me than anything I taught them, which might be good, don't get me wrong, but that's that they would care me inside of them as a memory of being deeply affirmed and such.


Spencer
So yeah, yeah, it's great. As we think about, you know, relationships, you know, we're fallen people, each of us. And so there are points where we hit friction. And so as you think about the families that you've worked with over time and just your observation, what are some of those things that as we have maybe grandparents who are engaging or gathering a family, what are some things that we want to keep on our radar screen that we are trying to, you know, minimize the potential that they go in a particular path or that we try to avoid pitfalls?


Spencer
What are things that maybe we need to to keep on our minds that we're trying to steer clear from? Yeah.


Brian
And these are going to be new thoughts for you. But I really what I see my practice in my own life is, is a strong desire to control and manage people. We try to boss people's thoughts, manage your thoughts. Quite often we start our senses off with you should or you need to versus what I encourage my clients to do, encourage myself to do.


Brian
The term we use. A psychologist is own your thoughts and feelings. I think this may I share with you? What do you think or I think it would be wise if you did this this and say you need to do this, Spencer or I consider some real dangers. If you go down that path, make sure those thoughts with you and and not manage the outcome.


Brian
It's share a thought and then say it's now between that person. God, what happens next in that badger not guilt trip and shame them? I oftentimes think when the main saboteurs is defensiveness in the way I distinguished defensiveness from defending is I want to defend myself. If something is 100% provably wrong, it's not opinion or perspective. So if someone said, Hey, Spencer, I heard you robbed the Weigel’s down the road yesterday and you say, No, I didn't defend yourself against a lie.


Brian
Right. But if I say to you, Spencer, it seems like you've been kind of just in a cold with me lately. No, I have it. Well, that's an experience in perspective. It's not. You know, it's not like an objective fact that you robbed a Weigel’s or did not. So I think certainly defend oneself against black and white provable falsehoods, if you will.


Brian
But when people share I was hurt by this or feeling ignored by you and neglected or you do understand me, The Temptations. What do you mean? You know or you know, I. I work hard. People get defensive because deep down, well, there's this in nature, but also deep down, we're all afraid that we're not good enough. And so when someone says something, it stirs as the fear that, I'm not a good enough father, grandfather, spouse, friend, neighbor, Christian.


Brian
And so, well, you know, and so there's your element of pride, ego, that's the sinful part. And but there's also just the fragility being human, that we're afraid that we're not measuring up. Sure. And we are that deep down fear. I think that defensive that's part of the reason we get defensive, but be able to bracket that anxiety that are not enough and say, okay, these words are hard to hear, but tell me more what you're saying and just really try to hear the person to understand.


Brian
You have to rubberstamp everything they say. And so to me it all gets back to otherness. Don't try to mold your grandchildren to on image. Just because of this. Because you're a very good baseball player that makes sure that your daughter son becomes a pitcher. Is local high school. He may hate sports. I'll just play violin and read Lord of


Brian
the Rings ten times, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And you embrace that. And so I think so much of this I think goes back to the other thing. You're not me. And that's okay. And I can, you know, I can walk away and still love you and embrace you even though you don't think exactly where you are. I think the truth of it is if people feel accepted for who they are, they're more likely to hear any wisdom.


Brian
You have to offer a perspective you have to offer. There's a saying people don't care about what you know, until they know much you care, I like what Cloud and Townsend who wrote boundaries say we grace people before we truth them. Yeah. To bad truth can be a verb in English. Should be so, yeah, we grace people before we truth.


Spencer
Well, it seems like if we're thinking about how we receive others, if they recognize that, you know, they've had a difficult interaction with us and they're feeling harmed or not heard or frustrated with us, for whatever reason, it comes back to, I think, some of what you were sharing earlier of if we've experienced God's love.


Brian
Yes.


Spencer
And you know that bullseye such that we're with Father, Son, Holy Spirit, you know, you're my son and human. Well, please. Yes. You know, we have different things that we can come back to. Maybe not that exact moment, but if we can take a pause and then after 5 seconds, you know, we bracket it like you're saying. Yes.


Spencer
Then we're a lot more likely to be able to actually receive it. And that's hard because we can intellectually know it, right, without it having really touched our heart. Right. And then we have this emotional response. You know, so often in the West, I think, you know, as men, we say, well, you know, emotions don't impact me as much or whatever, but the emotions are still driving us.


Spencer
We're not they're not a t the surface. Maybe as much. It's it does seem like if we have that that experience of love, we're able to then not have an existential crisis when someone comes to us.


Brian
Psychiatrist Curt Thompson talks about what parts of your being have not been touched by God's love. I like that a lot.


Spencer
Well, again, we're just so thankful that you've carved out space to come on with this Brian and share this wisdom, so many good, fruitful areas of this conversation. And so, again, just grateful for who you are and you and Vicki together in our community and with our firm and with that hope that you enjoyed it as well. And if you have any questions, don't hesitate to reach out to us and we'll look forward to seeing you next time.


Austin
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Discolsure
This content was provided by Second Half Stewardship. We are in Knoxville, Tennessee, and you can visit our website at www.secondhalfstewardship.com. The information in this recording is intended for general educational and informational purposes only and should not be construed as investment advisory, financial planning, legal tax, or other professional advice based on your specific situation, please consult your professional advisor before taking any action based on its contents.