Ep. 046 - The Gospel & Microfinance - Interview with Peter Greer of Hope International - Part 1

Episode Transcript

Spencer
Welcome to the Second Half Stewardship podcast. We believe that God owns it all, and our response as Christians is to live generous lives. I'm Spencer Hall, a certified financial planner.

Austin
And I am Austin McLaughlin. As former full time missionaries in the United States and overseas, Spencer and I approach managing our personal finances through the lens of biblical stewardship.

Spencer
Journey with us as we explore how to be generous stewards of our money, time, relationships, gifts, and experiences. Welcome back to Second Half Stewardship. Today we're excited to welcome a special guest to the podcast, Peter Greer. a little bit about Peter. He is the president and CEO of Hope international, a global, Christ centered economic development organization serving throughout Africa, Asia, Latin America, and Eastern Europe.

Spencer
Prior to joining Hope, Peter worked internationally as a microfinance advisor in Cambodia and Zimbabwe and as managing director for a Waco bank in Rwanda. He received a B.S. in International Business from Messiah University and an MPP and political and Economic Development from Harvard's Kennedy School. Peter has written 15 different books and has garnered a bunch of different awards with those.

Spencer
And he has a couple of friends, who he worked with to recently write a book that has been deeply impactful for Austin and a book called lead with prayer. which we're excited to dive into with him a little bit later on in the podcast. book has an amazing array of stories and resources to help us all go deeper in our relationship with God through prayer.

Spencer
we're excited to talk with Peter today. First, though, about Hope international and, his writing. This most recent book and what it looks like to actually implement those practices in leading with prayer. So, Peter, again, we're thrilled to have you on the podcast. Thanks so much for carving out time to join us.

Peter
Great to be with you. Thanks for the invitation.

Austin
Yeah. Well, Peter, you know, we've touched on Hope international a couple times with our audience. We've mentioned you guys a couple times in passing in different episodes, and some of our clients, some of the listeners may have heard about Hope international from us before, but for those that have a we'd love for our audience just to get to know hope a little bit better.

Austin
So, how did you get involved with Hope? Tell us a little bit about the mission and vision.

Peter
I love talking about Hope international, so thanks for the invitation. But yeah, so I, I grew up with this interest in, business and entrepreneurship. and I also had this interest in global missions and some of the most formative experiences of my life were traveling around and, and, learning and, really understanding, what an amazing world we live in, and understanding different cultures and people.

Peter
But there was one trip in particular that I can point to and say, that was the moment that these two interests intersected, this interest in business entrepreneurship and this interest in global missions. And it was when I was studying in Moscow, it would have been 1995. And it was after the fall of the Soviet Union. And there was an individual that I met with while I was there studying, and it wasn't some sort of big grand meeting, it just was a meal together.

Peter
But he described how he was doing economic development at that moment in time. And I just I came alive. Like you're telling me there's a way to use these business skills and entrepreneurship and access to capital and do it in such a way that you're building the local church and strengthening the local economy and addressing not just physical poverty, but spiritual poverty as well.

Peter
I am all in. So that moment, changed, everything in terms of career direction, ended up graduating from college and then ended up getting a job in internal controls and fraud prevention with world relief started in Cambodia in a rural branch office and I mean so many stories from that time, but literally going and being in the homes of families, learning about the reality of poverty and that it is possible to see meaningful progress, and it is possible to see churches strengthened and people on the move, in these communities and then went to Rwanda or ran a microfinance bank there for three years, and then Zimbabwe and microfinance in a hyperinflationary environment.

Peter
but really, it's it's all been two different, environments, but but the same theme, how do we use the tool of investment capital for those that typically don't get invested into, and how do we do it in such a way that we strengthen the local church, and address not just, kind of breaking, intergenerational poverty, but but doing it in such a way that individuals hear about Jesus.

Peter
so that's what I've been doing in my career and then joined Hope in 2004. So 20 years in, that I've been here with Hope international, and we're now in 24 countries and just past 3 million families we've been able to serve and invest in. And, it's been an absolute joy to be part of this global mission.

Peter
So that's the journey, that I've been on.

Austin
Awesome. Well, what I love, I think about hope in particular is, you know, we hear about microfinance. Let's give loans to the poorest of the poor and help them escape out of poverty, alleviate their place of poverty. And then you hear missions and church planting and let's go and reach the poorest of the poor and reach the unreached.

Austin
What I love about Hope is that it's it's really a blend of two. And even as we sat with you guys a couple of weeks ago hearing some stories from the field, it is that beautiful blend of we're not just going to meet a tangible need, and we're not just going to go plant churches, but it's really how do you embody both of those?

Austin
So as you think about the mission of Hope international, what are things that you get really excited about?

Peter
Austin I so appreciate that and what you what you just shared, because that totally is the heart of hope. And yes, there are lots of organizations doing economic development. And yes, there's lots of organizations that are finding ways of of sharing the hope of Christ. And we're trying to figure out, well, let's bring those two together. And in many ways, this is the historical precedent of the church.

Peter
ironically, it is relatively recent history that we have, needed to rediscover some of these tools. Did you know William Carey when he was one of these pioneering, missionaries for the whole missions movement, he used a grassroots form of economic development. He used savings groups as part of his outreach in India because, he said, people in poverty.

Peter
And unless there's financial literacy and job creation, they're always going to be in poverty. So let's use some of these tools, and we look at the history of the church, and it's a relatively recent thing that we have separated our service to the poor from our proclamation of good news. Those two things historically were joined. And we're saying let's let's rediscover, let's rediscover, let's bring them together and watch how powerful it is when we do both.

Peter
So I really appreciate that, Austin. That is the heartbeat of hope. and it is, in many ways you could simplify it and say, let's bring Matthew 28, go and make disciples of all nations. We've always had a global mission, and don't forget to teach everything that Jesus commanded. So let's turn a couple pages earlier, and let's look at Matthew 25, and let's realize that the King has a lot to say about the way that we care for the least of these.

Peter
and so let's be people who, live out Matthew 28 and Matthew 25. let's not believe that we are called to bifurcate our life. between those two, invitations that we have and we see so clearly in the life, and resurrection of Jesus.

Austin
Yeah, yeah, it's it's beautiful. It's really I think it just hits on exactly what you're talking about. It's like you can't divorce the Great Commission from the Great Commandment. We must love the Lord our God with all our heart, soul, and mind. Love our neighbor as ourselves. And as we're doing that, we make disciples. It's a beautiful, beautiful picture.

Austin
so for people that haven't heard of microfinance, can you unpack that a little bit? A lot of our listeners are going to be a little bit more attuned to what traditional finances you invest in companies or make loans to corporations, but what's the difference between that and microfinance?

Peter
You know, maybe the simplest way to describe it is to say, when you're growing up, aren't you glad that you had a place to save your money? Are you glad you had a savings account and started learning the importance of of of give, save and then spend? The rest aren't aren't you glad you had that? when you get a little older, if you're an entrepreneur, are you glad you had someone who encouraged you?

Peter
And aren't you glad you had someone, whether it was a bank or a family member that was willing to take the risk at investing in you? And then you get a little older, aren't you glad that you could get a mortgage to have a home? Aren't you glad that you had insurance so that when something happened to you, we're just trying to take what you and I have access to that we probably don't think a lot about and say, who are the people in the world that do not have that same access, and let's provide that to them.

Peter
So we provide safe places for people to save their money. And this might sound counterintuitive, but we actually don't think an investment into, someone before they have something going is a good investment. We think that when you start taking investment capital, that is ideal when you are scaling up. So we we help individuals form small groups, start saving together, growing and studying God's Word together.

Peter
And then over time, as these micro-enterprises get a little bit more scale, providing investment capital for them that are, collateralized loans, but we have a 98% repayment rate, so it shows the poor are creditworthy, in that and, and then to help them scale and offer other services as they grow that again, you and I have enjoyed they have taken our risk.

Peter
they have allowed us to have a return on our labor and capital, and we just think there's a lot of labor around the world that, does not have access to capital. Let's bring that together, and let's do it in such a way that the church is at the center. And, yeah, let's see what happens. And again, our great, great, journey.

Peter
And we did not come up with this model, but it really does show. Just because someone is born in poverty does not mean they have less ability, does not mean that they have fewer dreams. It does not mean that they have less of a desire to care for their kids. it just means they were born in a very different context.

Peter
So let's let's discover together what God has gifted them, and let's discover what happens when we partner together, not doing for, but doing with, other individuals. that again, born in very different circumstances, but a lot more in common, than what? sometimes we might initially believe.

Austin
Yeah.

Spencer
So so, Peter, as you get into this and as you set up savings groups and as you start to provide these services, where is it that you begin to, talk a little bit more about some of the biblical teaching? What does it look like as you have people come alongside and start to share some of the biblical principles, related to money or, you know, other parts of life?

Peter
The short answer is that actually happens before we even talk about savings and loans. And all of it is it is foundational. It is truly foundational. So in our church centered savings group ministry model, the way that we do is we have partnerships with denominations, and then we, find local churches that are the courageous ones that are willing to go first.

Peter
And, it really starts with the training. We call it the House of principles, that really we believe are these principles that will are necessary for group cohesion, are necessary for groups to gather together and are necessary for trust to be built, in them and it is all the teachings of Jesus. And isn't it interesting just how much Jesus had to teach us about the way we interact with each other, the way that we interact with business, the way that we interact with our money?

Peter
there is a lot to explore. and then out of that, individuals start saving together. And, and again, we try to keep everything real simple at home. But when these groups gather, they go through these five days of welcome worship, word work and wrap up. So essentially it's like a small group experience with also this, savings component and investing in each other's enterprises.

Peter
And, yeah. So that's that's a model. But the short answer is it literally from day one, from the very beginning? it is, it is woven and and the crazy thing is, we believe that it is true. And we believe if you practice what Jesus tells us, your life will be so much better on that. It will help the way that you grow your businesses.

Peter
It it will help, not hinder, in this. And, so yeah, we are unapologetic that we are an organization centered on Christ, centered on the teachings of Jesus and addressing not just, you know, principles of of economic development, but we want everyone to grow in their relationship with Christ.

Spencer
And so it sounds like as you reach out, you're from the first moment you're working with a local church there who you're really kind of equipping in some deeper ways to be able to help shepherd their congregation. through these savings groups, are we gathering that that right.

Peter
Yeah. And this is one of the most enjoyable things. I think, you know, we were together not long ago, and right before that, I had just returned from El Salvador. And one of the things that I love about my job is meeting our church partners. And for all of them, the way that they describe this is a tool that instead of inviting people into the church on a Sunday morning, we now are being invited into the marketplace, Monday through Friday, in this and, and, and these groups are a powerful tool, a door opener.

Peter
And churches see that they recognize this. This is being used for church planning. It's being used to invite others in. And when I was in El Salvador, the math, is pretty incredible. Initially it was eight individuals that formed this group. Next time, when they finished their cycle and wanted to do it again, there were 23 that were ready to go.

Peter
And then that one group, turned into five groups, in that, over a very short period of time. So, it, it is replicable. it is possible for this model, for individuals to see. Wait a minute there. There's something different about the way that they love and support each other. There's something different about their economic activity where they're able to provide for themselves and their families.

Peter
I want to learn more on that in the invitations, to go out, as individuals are being a blessing to their community and as they're putting these principles into practice. Yeah. So it's a wonderful invitation. It's wonderful to help equip local churches to be outward focused in service to their community. and, the great irony is that just is this winsome, apologetic, for the gospel right now as well.

Spencer
So as you partner with churches, you're putting, these biblical principles in place. You're helping, teach, you're helping engage. And with the savings group, it sounds like you're helping put together this kind of scaffolding, this structure where people can come together. And it sounds like they start to save first. and they have a group together. And then from what we could gather there, you would have them have, progressive opportunities to be able to make decisions about loans of those resources to different people within the group who may need to expand their business.

Spencer
that is that kind of how things work, or can you walk us through kind of how a savings group emerges and helps people kind of along that path of entrepreneurship?

Peter
The way that I wish I could answer that question was to say, let's go right now and let's go, participate in one of those groups together. Come join us on a trip. Let's go see it together. Is that really is the best way. We also do have this, a small group experience that I'm super excited about, where people can step into the lives of the families that we serve.

Peter
And, so it's called the discovering Hope experience. And it is so much fun. It is so much fun to actually see how that works in practicality. So that's what I'd love to invite you into. But but you're exactly right. It's these groups that are gathering together. and as they gather together, they become the underwriting committee. They become the ones that are saving together.

Peter
And then it is their savings, and they are the ones that make the determination of who in their group is going to receive that investment capital as it grows. And, the great thing is, you know, who gets the return on that? There's an interest that's charged most of the time, that means that all of the group is getting the benefit of that business.

Peter
They're taking the risk and they're getting the reward. And so it's it's really sometimes we overcomplicate banking. but it is the accumulation of capital. And then, the selection process of who is going to use those funds wisely, to earn more. And the shareholders benefit from that. And we just do that at the most micro level possible.

Peter
So in some ways, you know, banking has been around for thousands of years. we're just trying to bring it to people that have not had the ability to take advantage of the simple tools of saving, investing and, and launching, small. It's truly micro micro enterprises to start. They don't stay small all the time, and over time they grow and more capital is required and more investment is made.

Peter
And, super fun depth to see it grow.

Spencer
It's fantastic. Well, and it was fun to hear as well. You know, one of the questions as we gathered together a few weeks ago, how this differs, you know, from the way that we think about things in the West. And it was fun to hear, you and you to talk about the communal nature, you know, of, the clients that you serve in the developing world and how, you know, these savings groups, there's a level of, of accountability, you know, there among the group and there's a level of, of, engagement maybe with each other that's a little bit deeper than what we would typically see in our individualized, you know, kind

Spencer
of Western, worldview. here, can you talk a little bit about, you know, the power that you see, you know, in that connection, you know, among the clients that you serve.

Peter
Yeah, foundational is trust. And in this group, you have to have a group of 10 to 20 of your neighbors that you trust that are going to be willing to gather together every week or every other week to go through this process. I think we have a lot to learn from the developing world, about how a friendship and knowing your neighbors and being.

Peter
Well, I mean, this is next level. Can you imagine how would you choose your ten people that you're going to gather together? And it's not just your small group, but then you're going to start pulling your capital and investing in each other. and that's the model. and so it requires more of a communal versus individual perspective.

Peter
It requires, the habit and discipline to gather together on that. So, yeah, trust is foundational. no doubt about it. in this, yeah, in this work.

Spencer
Can you talk a little bit about also the one of the things that was so fun to hear was the trust then that is taken from the group, but also put into the church, you know, there in that, you know, when something bad happens, they know who to reach out to. People within that group know who to reach out to.

Spencer
And it's, it's maybe first their their colleagues or their friends in the savings group. But then second, you know, they're reaching out to the church and some of the things that you've done and just positioning the church to be, you know, that shepherding, that counseling, all those different pieces. Can you unpack some of of what that looks like in terms of just being able to, to, to, to love people well?

Peter
Yeah, we imagine, communities around the world where the church is relevant to day to day decisions and the core of community. And I read about the early church in acts chapter two, and I see a group of people that were devoted, to learning more about Jesus, were devoted to each other, and were extremely committed to each other and generosity, especially those who had needs, and, and I just say, like, I think that what we read in, in acts chapter two, what would happen if that were true today?

Peter
What would happen if that still describe the church, in that and I think we would see some amazing work, amazing things happened in our world in our day, in time. And. Yeah. So that's that's really it. It's a it's a church that is outward focused. It's a church is, inviting people into relationship with God and with each other.

Peter
it's a place where you are known, and, are invited into this idea about how do we apply the teachings of Jesus to the work that we do. and the crazy thing is, I really do believe these principles they apply to you and me as well. They apply here as well. and, you kind of look at all the stats of the rise of loneliness and all of the harm.

Peter
And I think we have a wonderful invitation to say, let's rediscover, other centered relationships. let's rediscover a church that is not just a gathering place on Sunday, but a gathering community throughout the week where we show up for each other in our moments of need and in the opportunities that we have. So anyway, I get super excited when I learn from the global church, see the way that they are living.

Peter
And, in many ways want to try to emulate that in my own home church here in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, as well.

Austin
Yeah. You know, Peter, as you were talking even before you mentioned the early church, I just kept hearing, you know, resonance of the early church and this model of we're going to share the resources with one another. And I think, you know, oftentimes people in the West especially get, maybe uncomfortable is the best word to put it with that early church model of there was communal nature and people brought what they had into the storehouse.

Austin
And then they, the apostles, divided it out as they saw need. And, we look at that and we're uncomfortable. But then on the flip side, in Acts 4, it talks about there's not a needy person among them. And that's something that's, I think, just been really striking for us. So I'd love to hear, like, do you have any stories from the field about these savings groups that you would want to share?

Peter
That's opening up a dangerous question Austin. I mean, you know, all kinds of questions, but, you know, the one that, to me, stands out. part of the reason it stands out because it seemed so small and so insignificant when they started. But it was a group of 23 women that started saving $0.10 a week and $2.30.

Peter
That is a waste of time, right? It most certainly was not, though, because it's not just about the economic component of it. It's about hope for the future. It's about dreaming. It's about planning. It's about relationship with each other. It's about praying for each other and all these other things that the group gathered together. and they supported each other, and started meeting needs as they had caring for each other and, and each other's kids in that.

Peter
And then, you know, they didn't stay at $0.10 a week, though, and they started gathering and started doing a dollar a week, and then $5 and then $10 and, over time, when I visited this group, they had, started several larger businesses. They were doing flour grinding and then, having the farms and then the they had bought a truck to deliver their flour to the different places.

Peter
And so I got to be in the back of their pickup truck. and this group wanted to make sure I got the tour of the town, in that. And they took me to the church that they were building, brick by brick in that community, this this group, a key part of that church. And then they took me to the schools where they were giving away, some of the food, in that and then helping their kids in their education.

Peter
And then they took me and it just was this beautiful sense that you did not see head down and hand out. You saw them standing tall and in a most sincere way. I said, this is amazing. This is amazing. The transformation. And, just to see how quick they were to say, we know the one, we know the one to ultimately say thankful.

Peter
Thank you to and and just to see their faith, to see their love, to see their relationship with each other, their commitment to Christ and to each other. I was just beautiful. And it started with what I thought would be a waste of time and what could possibly happen from $0.10 a week. So I think of that group.

Peter
and then also, I think just again, a couple weeks ago in El Salvador, meeting, a group of individuals that started, saving together and then also learning about some regenerative agricultural practices and shifting into practices that cared for the soil. had better, yields and, more crop diversification. And talking to them about the impact of health on their families and to talk about the way that now their economics, had changed and to realize individuals have been drawn into the church, as a result of, of this sort of an approach.

Peter
So, yeah. Anyway, I could go on. Austin. That's a dangerous question. I love telling stories of the people that we are so privileged to serve.

Austin
Yeah, well, thanks for sharing at least that one. I think you know, when we think about deploying capital, when we think about being generous givers, we call this podcast the Second Half Stewardship Podcast because we want people to be really generous stewards of all of the resources that God has given us. And, you know, you hear these stories of, okay, where can you mobilize capital in the West to really have an impact?

Austin
And you think about, okay, $2.30, where can that go? Just like you were saying. And then to see that impact, I think that's one of the beautiful things about hope is you can really see that impact, both financially because you're seeing these groups rise up and you're getting these incredible stories, but also what their impact in their community that the the beauty of these women's lives that have been incredibly transformed by the gospel, by community, it's such a incredible story to hear.

Austin
So thanks for sharing those two.

Austin
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Disclosures
This content was provided by Second Half Stewardship. We're in Knoxville, Tennessee, and you can visit our website at www.secondhalfstewardship.com. The information in this recording is intended for general, educational and informational purposes only, and should not be construed as investment advisory, financial planning, legal, tax or other professional advice based on your specific situation. Please consult your professional advisor before taking any action based on its contents.