Ep. 047 - Transforming Prayer: Insights from Peter Greer, Co-Author of “Lead with Prayer” - Part 2

Episode Transcript

Spencer
Welcome to the Second Half Stewardship podcast. We believe that God owns it all, and our response as Christians is to live generous lives. I'm Spencer Hall, a certified financial planner.

Austin
And I'm Austin McLaughlin. As former full time missionaries in the United States and overseas. Spencer and I approach managing our personal finances through the lens of biblical stewardship.

Spencer
Journey with us as we explore how to be generous stewards of our money, time, relationships, gifts, and experiences.

Austin
Welcome back to the second Half stewardship. We're really glad that you're here. We are picking back up with a conversation that we had with Peter Greer, starting with his organization, Hope international. And just over viewing Hope, today we're going to talk a little bit more about prayer. So if you want to learn more about Hope, you watch our last episode.

Austin
But, Peter, you recently wrote a book called Lead With Prayer and really was foundational information for Spencer and I as we read it over the last couple of months. It's been incredibly impactful. The research that you all did. So we would love to just start off and hear from you. What made you want to write a book about prayer?

Austin
What were some of the striking things that that drove you to write this book?

Peter
Austin just to be clear, I did not want to write this book. Ryan Skoog reached out and said, let's write a book on the prayer lives of world changing leaders. My response was, Ryan, that sounds amazing. I can't wait to read your book but I'm out. and part of the reason for that is when I look at my own prayer life, there was a, there was a gap between what I said and what I did.

Peter
I would say that prayer mattered, but I have a really hard time quieting my soul, getting my internal RPMs down to a place that there is this deep sense of prayer. And so my response to Ryan was, I am. I am the wrong person on that. But I am so grateful I actually did something crazy the next morning.

Peter
I spent some time praying about this and the overwhelming sense was, don't miss the journey, Peter. And I am so grateful. It truly has been the most transformational. I've never had anything that comes close to the impact on my prayer life. There has nothing like this exercise of let's listen. Let's learn from the global church about what it looks like to be intentional in prayer.

Peter
And then let's do something crazy. Let's try it. Let's put it into practice. So that has been the journey and it has been so good. And I am so grateful for Ryan and his invitation. And then Cameron and Jill joining in, said there were four of us working on this project together and really saying, let's learn from the global church.

Peter
Let's learn from these leaders. And then as a group of four, we we wrote the book in community and we put these tools into practice in to community. And again, there is far less of a gap today than there was a couple of years ago between what I said and what I did when it comes to prayer. So I really appreciate the words and the journey you guys have been on too.

Peter
But, I think all four of us that worked on this would say it has had a transformation, little impact on our prayer lives.

Austin
Yeah. So with that, I would love to note from the research that y'all did, you interviewed prayer leaders. You read stories about praying leaders that have already passed and are with the Lord now. What were some of the most striking things that stood out to you?

Peter
So we started. We thought it would be a good idea to start with Jesus. And did you know the prayer life of Jesus is unbelieve on that. And, and and you might look and say, Jesus, you got three years, you got limited time. You got to really hustle. And what do we see about the life of Jesus?

Peter
He not sometimes, but often withdrew to lonely places and prayed. And we also see in the decision making before Jesus appointed the 12. You know what he did? He spent the night in prayer. You know what Jesus decided to do the night before he went to the cross? He knew what was about to happen. He said, there's nothing more important that I can do right now than to pray with my friends.

Peter
Come like, let's go to the garden. Isn't that amazing on that? Yeah. And and then we look at our lives and say, wait a minute. do I think I am busier than Jesus? Do I think that I don't need it as much as Jesus needed it? And so we started, with the prayer life of Jesus. And there was so much to learn.

Peter
But we didn't stop there. Then we looked at the historical church, and, over, over hundreds of years looking at the prayer practices, some that had been around for so many years, but I never practiced before. and, and that was transformational. And then also to have the opportunity to interview global leaders and to learn from them.

Peter
And I could jump into so many of those conversations. But literally, for me, just the time to, interview Joni Erickson Tata, was one of the very that was one of the most special moments of the book writing. And, and this is someone who has a vibrant prayer life and who would say, I'm experiencing Jesus in my pain is far better.

Peter
It is far better than a life without pain. And to know that she believes that, to know that she says that is true. and and so how do you do that? How does Johnny cultivate this vibrant prayer life that has sustained her? so that's the that's the journey that we were on. And for leaders, there is this cautionary tale, every, study was done about leaders that didn't finish well.

Peter
Every single one of them had long ago lost any sense of a personal prayer life. Every single one. So like, this is this is good for our soul. It is good for our organizations. And it is one of the most important ways to protect ourselves against pride and hubris. that derails so many leaders, today. So anyway, I could go on, but, it has had a transformational impact on our lives, on our leadership, and on the organizations where we serve.

Austin
Yeah. I think, you know, Peter, a couple of our last episodes, we highlighted the life of John Wes or Charles Wesley and CT Studd and just some others, and the amount of time that they spent in prayer, it's just staggering. So and it really impacted all of the organizations that they led to. It led into launching to global movements.

Austin
Mueller, George Mueller, that was the third that I couldn't remember. so when we met with our regional coordinator recently, she mentioned that prayer is a major focus point of Hope international. So how did the research that you guys did, how has it affected the organization?

Peter
So that was part of what we wanted to learn is how do we as leaders grow in our prayer lives, but then not keep it to ourselves and to bring our prayer room into the boardroom, and into the organizational culture, and to learn from, our global friends that, that do this. and I've had experiences around the world.

Peter
My last trip to Rwanda, it was Friday night, and I was asking the staff, what are you going to do tonight? They're like, oh, it's the first Friday of the month. So we're going to have an all night prayer meeting. Oh, wow. Remember being in the Philippines and being invited to participate in Dawn watch? And I thought that sounded cool.

Peter
Let's go look at a sunrise. I thought, no, dawn watch means they're going to be in a room with no windows. But while the sun is, rising outside, they're going to start their day in prayer. 5:30 a.m. that's what they're gonna do. I don't know about your culture, but, that, is a high bar from some of our global friends, and it is normative.

Peter
And and then fasting and then retreat and then all these things, that, again, are not new, but I think that we live in a world that tells us, the ultimate goal is your own self-sufficiency. You do it on your own. And prayer actually requires a level of dependency, requires reaching the end of your ability to say, Lord, apart from you, I can do nothing, not apart from you.

Peter
I can still do my strategic plan. And what apart from you, I can do nothing. So teach me to abide in you. Teach me to be deeply connected to the vine. And, that changes everything in our life and in our leadership. So we're just trying to. Well, we're not leaders in this. We're just trying to learn from the global church and to implement a couple things, that, that we've learned from them.

Peter
and it has been a great journey that we've been on, but yeah, we think about it about what are our daily habits, what are our weekly habits, what are our annual habits? And we think about that organizationally and we think about that individually. And again, nothing new. But have we thought about creating a simple rule of life for ourself and for our organizations of how we don't fit prayer into the margins, but we place prayer as some anchors and then we build our day around that.

Peter
That simple reordering, will change the vibrancy of our prayer life. So that's, that's that's what we're trying to do.

Spencer
As you think about those anchors, what is it hope that has, what are a couple of the things that have been the anchors that you're building around and then, well, let's let's start there, that there's plenty there.

Peter
Yeah. And in many ways, I mean, it's not overthinking it for us. It's here's what we do. Monday, we do Tuesday. Here's you do Wednesday. And and some days it's prayer within our smaller teams. Some days here with the global team man. it's it's just create a plan. It's like if you believe it matters, put it on your calendar.

Peter
If you believe that prayer is important, don't wait until you have nothing else to do before you, spend time in prayer. Put those in your calendar and then relentlessly protect them. Now, when I travel, I try really hard. you know, it's a 9 a.m. prayer time some days. And when I'm on the West Coast, it comes a little early, on.

Peter
But you know what I remember? I remember Philippines at 530, and I think I'm sleeping in right now, on that. So. So get it on the calendar and then make it a priority and then invite others in, to that journey as well. So, I don't know, I, I don't I don't think it has to be more complicated than that.

Peter
We also, love this tool, but when we were working on the book, Ryan created these prayer cards, which are just prayer prompts, because that's the other challenge is when we even if we make time for prayer, it's like, what do I do? My mind is so prone to wander my my thoughts can make the squirrels, look like they're not very energetic, on that.

Peter
So these, prompts help us stay focused and focus on Scripture or focus on questions and, and, things to be praying about. That's been super, super helpful. And then there also is an app, that we love the abide out. but that's been I'm sorry, the echo app. but that's been, a great tool. as well.

0Peter
So anyway, tools, calendar izing it, prioritizing it. those are pieces that I have found enormously helpful to shrink the gap between what I say and then what I actually do when it comes to my prayer life.

Spencer
Yeah. There's so many good things, you know, within the book. I mean, you're talking through calendar izing it and defending that, and and what a challenge that can be. but I one of the things I love, you know, you're talking about the, the capacity for us to distract ourselves. I love one of the things and I think you, you quote John Piper in this, but, you know, you take 5 or 6 different seven passages, you know, from the word and of the prayer list that you have.

Spencer
You pray the scriptures, you know, that so it keeps you engaged. You know, if you're praying Romans 12, if you're praying, you know, Psalm 23 or whatever it might be, the passage, you know, and I found that to be incredibly helpful as I pray through family and friends and, you know, just a different rhythm, you know, of that on a day to day basis because, I'll still get distracted, but it's maybe, you know, 20% as much, you know, as it would be otherwise.

Spencer
So I found that, you know, tool to be remarkably, helpful. And yet, it's it's the simple things, you know, like you've talked about. It's not, some, some kind of, you know, you know, massively new idea. It's taking those elements and just saying, is this going to be a priority or not? And am I going to do this in community or not, where I'm being encouraged, you know, we had when we were on the mission field for a number of years, the South Koreans that we were working alongside, you know, they would pray three hours a day and they're praying and they're all talking at the same time.

Spencer
And there's this level of vibrancy and energy, you know, and we go back to our own prayer meetings, you know, often times, coming from the States and it's just like, wow, we, we have a lot to learn from our brothers and sisters in South Korea. so, so, so good to hear you learning those lessons.

Spencer
or just talking about the lessons that you've learned, you know, from the global church.

Peter
No, that's that's absolutely true. And, for us, that gift of cross-cultural prayer, and that, that, that is that that is a gift. And in many ways, that was kind of the fun, right, is let's just look globally and let's look historically. And, you know, you guys know this because you read the book, but there's way too many things in that to practice, all of them.

Peter
And our invitation is just try some things, try some new practices, try some of these new tools. And my guess is some of them, not all of them, but some of them will help you. yeah. Kind of grow deeper, if you desire to, to grow in your prayer life. So hold what what actually helps and let go of the rest.

Peter
but there is a whole lot more, yeah, tools and approaches and even looking at Scripture, do you know how many, how many different verbs there are to describe prayer? I mean, there's so many invitations beyond, now your head and fold your hands. There's a lot more postures and practices, when it comes to prayer. So try it.

Peter
Experiment. see which ones help you in that. In your, yeah. Experience and relationship. Yeah. With Christ through prayer.

Spencer
Well, and even just the beginning of the day, you know, Austin, you referenced, the, the focus that we had on George Mueller for, one episode, but, you know, him talking about the first thing that he did every day was to, to to get happy in the Lord, to find a way to have his soul happy, you know, in the Lord.

Spencer
And one of the things I love about the what you guys reference is getting into the Psalms and picking a Psalm that you're going to do kind of day to day and just allowing that to wash over you. And, you know, I found, just personally, that that's such a way to get happy, you know, in the Lord.

Spencer
You know, if we give ourselves enough time that, it's just like, where have I been missing this? You know what? Why? Why have I not been doing this? but it's it's, you know, I guess maybe common sense in the prayer life is not common practice, but, So good to see you guys giving us so many different ways that we can look and and try to implement practice and then go to our brothers and sisters.

Spencer
So, what a what a fantastic resources as you kind of think about, those, those elements, any other things that just struck you personally, Peter, as being maybe the most impactful among, you know, what you, share in the book?

Peter
yeah. I mean, just one organizational, piece that was so interesting is I think there are some people that would say, well, that would never work. And, and then fill in the blank of their context and some reason why it wouldn't work there. The other interesting thing is I think we found stories that are beyond, the bounds that even in that type of environment, you might,

Peter
Yeah, I think it is possible. I, I firmly believe it is possible, but there's two stories that didn't make it in the book, and I am so disappointed. These stories we're from, fortune 500. Incredible leaders of brands that everyone knows who have created these vibrant, prayer cultures in their place of work, like vibrant, incredible. We get to participate, in one of them ‘em.

Peter
the people that we interviewed allowed us to share their story. But every interview requires a legal sign off. And the legal departments, did not allow us to work with their stories, which I'm really disappointed. But trust me when I say, even in corporate America, it is possible. It requires a little bit more creativity and then maybe not officially on company time, but it is so possible if if you believe it matters, it is absolutely possible to gather with others and pray together.

Peter
so anyway, I'm disappointed those official stories are not in it, but take my word for it. it is possible, to grow. in there, a little bit of creativity, that flows from a commitment and, and my guess, is there might be an opportunity. Yeah, to do more. And maybe if you don't know where to start.

Peter
I just love the request that the disciples brought to Jesus, when they said, Lord, teach us to pray. And I think that is a great prayer for us today even as we start this journey. Lord, teach us to pray. yeah. So and I think God loves to answer that prayer.

Austin
Yeah. I think, you know, Peter is you, even as you mentioned that I think that comes back to my mind often is just this. It's a posturing Lord, teach us to pray. And I think that that invitation is an open handed invitation because God will fill our hearts and our minds if we have the desire. And I think that was the thing that struck me so often in the book, is where is my desire?

Austin
Is my desire or my own output? Or is my desire just to be with the Lord? And so I think one last question that I have is just what are oppositions or barriers or hurdles that you've come up against after writing this, as you've explored your own prayer life, as you've explored organizational prayer life, and how have you worked through this?

Peter
I, I would change the tense of your question. Work, is past tense. maybe the question is now, am I continuing to try to work, these things? and you know what I love to I just there's this one quote, from Brandon Manning, but basically the the gist of it is like, no child can bring a coloring picture, a bad coloring picture to their parent, right?

Peter
I mean, just the fact in and no child can do a bad prayer to our gracious, gracious God on that. So get the pressure off of doing it perfectly. in that and I think exploring the purpose of prayer. Austin, you just made a massively important point. If we think prayer is how to most expediently get what we want, we're going to be disappointed with prayer.

Peter
God, you didn't give me what I wanted in my time frame. Am I doing it wrong or are you doing it wrong? when we started, having conversations, one of the people, that we interviewed, his name was John Kim, and he talked about this idea of wasting time with God. It's in New York. works in finance.

Peter
and I just love that idea of. No, the goal is presence. and Ryan Skoog is this practice every Sunday. He doesn't ask God for anything on that day in prayer. Spends a lot of time praying, but it's to find that delight of presence and, a whole lot of thank you, thank you, Lord. so I think that's like, an interesting, idea to explore is what what is the purpose of prayer?

Peter
And outside of getting what you want, is there more, in this and, and then to not be on the journey? so anyway, I could go on and on and on, but, I, you know, maybe again, one of the practical things that I am currently doing, is to create time and space. and then to just practice these tools.

Peter
I'm rereading the book.

Austin
And I'd.

Peter
Like to actually say I want to put it into practice, in that and, and again, just the prayer card, those prompts have been so helpful to me, on that. So, yeah, that's what I am currently doing to still be on this journey. and I'm still praying the prayer. Lord. Oh, I am so distracted. Lord, teach me to pray.

Peter
Teach me to find great delight, in your presence.

Spencer
Well Peter, again, thanks so much for unpacking. Not just, Lead with Prayer, but Hope international and the work that you do there. It's just such a delight to be able to bring you on the podcast. And, if you have any questions about, what we've talked through, HopeInternational.org is a place that you can find more resources there.

Spencer
Lead with prayer is it LeadwithPrayer.com Peter? Is that that where we find the resources for the from the book.

Peter
Correct job leadwithprayer.com and we put as much as the publisher would allow us to offer free there in terms of the tools, to share. So yeah, lots of materials there. leadwithprayer.com.

Spencer
Super. Well, thanks again. And again, if you have any questions, reach out to us. We'd love to have further conversations with you.

Austin
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Disclosure
This content was provided by Second Half Stewardship. We are in Knoxville, Tennessee and you can visit our website at www.secondhalfstewardship.com. The information in this recording is intended for general, educational and informational purposes only, and should not be construed as investment advisory, financial planning, legal, tax, or other professional advice based on your specific situation. Please consult your professional advisor before taking any action based on its contents.